Comments on Obama's Socialist Views are the Winning Issue in this Election

Greg commented on 'Obama's Socialist Views are the Winning Issue in this Election'

Greg — Tue, 28 Oct 2008 10:11:14 -0700

tridog, I'm delighted we agree the government consistently takes money from some people and gives it other people. Therefore, the concept itself shouldn't be offensive. Clearly, taking money from taxpayers and giving it to government employees for their efforts is a prudent transfer of money. The debate lies in the rationale for government decisions concerning collecting and redistributing wealth. If I'm understanding correctly, you feel Obama wishes to redistribute the wealth evenly. I strongly disagree.

We agree funding retraining programs is a prudent mechanism for addressing the creative destruction (that term sounds so harsh) which is an inevitable result of capitalism. This is another example of a prudent redistribution of wealth.

We also agree the Earned Income Credit is driven by compassion and a desire to reward work. I understand it feels offensive when some citizens receive a net benefit from the tax system. First, when I have this feeling, I ask myself a simple question: would I want to trade places with the other person? Well, I wouldn't. Secondly, what are the alternatives for this single parent? Unless this single parent can find a volunteer to care for the children, how could he possibly afford to work? In other words, without the EIC, I suspect the single parent with two children would actually be on welfare and wouldn't be working at all. Don't you agree? Isn't that worse? I think, and I'm optimistic you will agree, the EIC program is superior to welfare and the minimum wage.

I'm further delighted we agree the federal budget deficit significantly increased under the Reagan administration. We also agree the legislative branch plays an important role and should share in the credit or blame.

Greg commented on 'Obama's Socialist Views are the Winning Issue in this Election'

Greg — Tue, 28 Oct 2008 09:02:55 -0700

Scott, I'm glad you clarified on the basis for concluding Obama is a socialist. However, it is a difficult debate if you simply assert all of Obama's current proposals are lies.

I'm still curious how you feel about Warren Buffett. I'm under the impression he is considered a successful, sophisticated, consummate capitalist. Do you think Buffett feels Obama will move the country significantly toward socialism and approves of it? Or is he mesmerized by the Obama magic? Or is he just simply wrong in this case?

Ye Old Tyme Reactionary commented on 'Obama's Socialist Views are the Winning Issue in this Election'

Ye Old Tyme Reactionary — Mon, 27 Oct 2008 20:40:52 -0700

Its interesting you mention Obamas socialism - when you consider that he is really nothing more than your average welfare state liberal.And yes, there is a difference.

Look here, apprently these communists are supporting McCain and Palin on the worse the better principle...

http://www.freemediaproductions.info/Editorials/?p=79

tridog commented on 'Obama's Socialist Views are the Winning Issue in this Election'

tridog — Mon, 27 Oct 2008 19:36:50 -0700

Greg -

Have to take exception with your snarky remark about the Reagan deficit. Caused, not by a trouble with incomes - they SOARED. His problem - he refused to veto the Democrat spending - too worried about looking mean. You will run deficits when congress spends $1.25 for every new 1.00 the country brings in.

tridog commented on 'Obama's Socialist Views are the Winning Issue in this Election'

tridog — Mon, 27 Oct 2008 19:33:01 -0700

Greg -

Yes - we do currently redistribute wealth. One method is the Earned Income Tax Credit. A single parent who has 2 kids and earns 10k or so a year will get about 4k MORE from the Feds than they paid in. They wind up with a tax bill of -4k. This is basically welfare.

I disagree with it because I think it is un-constitutional. I see no allowance in the Constitution for taking money from one taxpayer and giving it directly to another.

Your example of the military is lame. This is not redistribution - it is employment. By your logic, all government employment is redistribution.

My fundamental issue. While I disagree with the EIC - it was done in the interest of both compassion and to reward work.

BHO, it seems to me, is seeking redistribution to force an equal outcome. The issue of this tax rate or that capital gains is a side-show. He wants to force equal outcome - not just an equal chance. Spend money on job training, etc - I am for that

Scott commented on 'Obama's Socialist Views are the Winning Issue in this Election'

Scott — Mon, 27 Oct 2008 17:21:17 -0700

Greg -

My argument, repeatedly, has been that Obama's proposals do not reflect his learning and his beliefs. He will find a reason to make extreme wealth redistribution happen once in office. He pretty much said so in this interview.

Greg commented on 'Obama's Socialist Views are the Winning Issue in this Election'

Greg — Mon, 27 Oct 2008 17:03:38 -0700

Tridog, I'm failing to understand your argument. If the tax code is the means for Obama's redistribution of wealth as you claim, and frankly I'm not sure how else he could do it, then my post stands. How can you claim raising the top rate by 3-4% is extreme? How can you claim setting the capital gains tax to less than it was under Reagan is extreme?

If the phrase "redistribute wealth" disturbs you, how would you characterize what the government does and has done for decades? Would transfer money be better? The government collects money from various people for various reasons and then gives the money to other people for various reasons. For example, presumably some of the money I paid in taxes last year went to fund our brave men and women in the military. Should I be annoyed that the government took my money and gave it to these people?

Tridog commented on 'Obama's Socialist Views are the Winning Issue in this Election'

Tridog — Mon, 27 Oct 2008 16:01:06 -0700

Greg -

Calling him a Socialist is too extreme? Why don't you complain the Obama's views are too extreme. Why is pointing out extreme views called extreme - when the extreme views are given a pass???

It has nothing to do with the tax rate. The interview he gave in 2001, the one where he used the term 'Redistribute Wealth'. It is the goal he seeks - the tax code is only the means.

Journalism died this year. RIP.

Greg commented on 'Obama's Socialist Views are the Winning Issue in this Election'

Greg — Mon, 27 Oct 2008 14:04:30 -0700

And another thing...Warren Buffett supports Obama. Why would Buffett support a socialist? Is Buffett a socialist?

Greg commented on 'Obama's Socialist Views are the Winning Issue in this Election'

Greg — Mon, 27 Oct 2008 13:11:52 -0700

Good luck with the socialist argument. I contend it is too extreme. The argument might help rouse the base a bit, but I doubt will persuade many independents.

Obama is proposing raising the top income rate by 3-4%. Am I to infer the line separating capitalism and socialism is somewhere between 35% and 39%? The top rate will be back to where it was under the Clinton administration. Remember Clinton? His administration was the one that actually balanced the budget. Was Clinton a socialist?

Obama is proposing setting a top capital gains tax rate of 20%, which is 8% lower than under the Reagan administration. Remember Reagan? Under his administration, the budget deficit nearly quadrupled to a post-WWII record until the fellow Republican George W Bush administration broke the record.

And aren't these fears of ruining the economy and killing jobs the same fears expressed over Clinton's proposals in 1992. Remember how that turned out? Tens of millions of jobs and a balanced budget. Sorry, did I mention that already?

Have no fear. Americans responded when Clinton suggested having "the courage to change" in 1992. Hopefully, Americans still have sufficient courage in 2008.

Scott commented on 'Obama's Socialist Views are the Winning Issue in this Election'

Scott — Mon, 27 Oct 2008 10:55:23 -0700

Sounds like Rush is focusing on it almost exclusively so far. That means Hannity will be doing likewise, which means it will be mentioned on H+C for the next weeks. That means at least some undecided PUMAs will see it, plus the fact that the PUMA sites are already running with it.

Should help at least some. But, yeah, sure would be nice if we had an MSM that could be counted on to commit acts of journalism once in awhile.

Nancy commented on 'Obama's Socialist Views are the Winning Issue in this Election'

Nancy — Mon, 27 Oct 2008 10:30:14 -0700

If only the information can get out in time. Right now the video is really only being shown on fox, blogs and talk radio. The real question is will this make it into the nightly news so older voters can know about it. I certainly hope so.